To ban the old SA flag or not - a debate

The old South African flag is at the centre of a case being taken to the Equality Court by the NelsonMandela Foundation and AfriForum at the end of April, arguing whether or not a display of the flag constitutes hate speech.

Eusebius McKaiser hosted a debate between Sello Hatang, CEO of the Nelson Mandela Foundation, and Ernst Roets, AfriForum deputy CEO, about whether or not the old South African flag should be banned.

AfriForum agrees with us that this is one of those symbols that takes us back and continues to violate the sensibilities, particularly of those who believe it propagates hate speech, it propagates unfair discrimination, and all of us should distance ourselves from it.

Sello Hatang, CEO - Nelson Mandela Foundation

He highlights the Nelson Mandela Foundation biggest disagreement with AfriForum.

They should be helping us as South Africans to move away from the 1928 flag, which at the time of its passing, it came with a whole raft of other laws which said black people were inferior.

Sello Hatang, CEO - Nelson Mandela Foundation

AfriForum's Roets agrees with the broad sentiment expressed by Hatang, but has one rider.

The flag can be displayed with different intentions.

Ernst Roets, Deputy CEO - AfriForum

What are these possible 'different intentions' asks Eusebius?

Roets cites the example of those South Africans who fought against the Nazis during the Second World War under the old flag.

Then the context of using or displaying the flag is different, than simply saying I display the flag because I hate black people or want to oppress black people.

Ernst Roets, Deputy CEO - AfriForum

Roets says displaying something that is offensive is not a call to action, and so does not fall under hate speech.

I am an Afrikaner, I work at AfriForum, and I don't know a single person who owns and displays that flag.

Ernst Roets, Deputy CEO - AfriForum

But he also acknowledges that many white South Africans who do display the old flag might well have racist intentions, but says he can only speculate.

I'm sure you would find white people displaying the flag with racist intentions and maybe that might be the majority of cases. I don't know

Ernst Roets, Deputy CEO - AfriForum

Hatang argues that no matter the intention, displaying the flag is problematic, as the one who is receiving the message has to be considered.

To display it at a rugby game, it can be read as being hurtful.

Sello Hatang, CEO - Nelson Mandela Foundation

It will still feel like it is promoting hatred, he explains.

The impact needs to be considered, not just the intention.

Listen to the insightful debate below:


Recommended

by NEWSROOM AI
Read More
[LISTEN] 'David Genaro has colonised every cell inside me'

[LISTEN] 'David Genaro has colonised every cell inside me'

Actor Jamie Bartlett chats to Eusebius about his long-running role on Rythm City, his childhood and being a father.

Understanding the power dynamics between doctor and patient

Understanding the power dynamics between doctor and patient

Clinical psychologist Cassandra Govender says it is dangerous to give too much control of your life to your practitioner.

[LISTEN]  The use of lawfare in SA and the Gordhan vs Mkhwebane case

[LISTEN] The use of lawfare in SA and the Gordhan vs Mkhwebane case

Analysts give their perspective on the case as well as the politics surrounding it.

'I should have told the Sunday Times the pot smoking was irrelevant'

'I should have told the Sunday Times the pot smoking was irrelevant'

Investigative journalist Jacques Pauw says he's sorry for any harm caused in his article on Mkhwebane and her principal witness.

Sexual and emotional abuse: Does forgiving your perpetrator help with healing?

Sexual and emotional abuse: Does forgiving your perpetrator help with healing?

Clinical sexologist Dr Eve says research that shows the way to heal is through self-forgiveness, self-compassion, self-care.

[LISTEN] 'There is a deep wounding associated with the Verwoerd name'

[LISTEN] 'There is a deep wounding associated with the Verwoerd name'

Eusebius McKaiser has an in-depth discussion with apartheid leader Hendrik Verwoerd's grandson, Wilhelm.

Popular articles
[BREAKING NEWS] Johnny Clegg (66) has passed away

[BREAKING NEWS] Johnny Clegg (66) has passed away

Specialists diagnosed the singer with pancreatic cancer in 2015.

Investigators find serious corruption at EOH

Investigators find serious corruption at EOH

A probe found "suspicious transactions" worth R1.2bn, bribery and theft. Bruce Whitfield interviews EOH CEO Stephen Van Coller.

I think Zuma has an exaggerated sense of self-importance - Dr Mufamadi

I think Zuma has an exaggerated sense of self-importance - Dr Mufamadi

ANC stalwart Dr Sydney Mufamadi questions why Zuma is bringing up the names of the alleged spies only now.

'Batchelor was once close to Mikey Schultz and self-confessed Kebble killers'

'Batchelor was once close to Mikey Schultz and self-confessed Kebble killers'

Journalist and author Mandy Wiener describes former footballer Marc Batchelor's links to alleged underworld figures.

'Calculated move by media to undermine Public Protector, I don't accept apology'

'Calculated move by media to undermine Public Protector, I don't accept apology'

Former Sars employee Bizoski Manyike responds to the Sunday Times article that called him a 'dope-smoking Rastafarian'.

3 best JSE and offshore shares to buy, right now (by Anchor Capital)

3 best JSE and offshore shares to buy, right now (by Anchor Capital)

The Money Show’s Bruce Whitfield asks Henry Biddlecombe (an analyst at Anchor Capital) for his stock picks of the week.

Advisor scams pensioners out of R100 million with promises of 14% returns

Advisor scams pensioners out of R100 million with promises of 14% returns

Bruce Whitfield interviews Phillip de Wet (Business Insider), Robert Walton (Boutique Collective Investments) and Brandon Topham.

'I should have told the Sunday Times the pot smoking was irrelevant'

'I should have told the Sunday Times the pot smoking was irrelevant'

Investigative journalist Jacques Pauw says he's sorry for any harm caused in his article on Mkhwebane and her principal witness.

[WATCH] Over 50 artists record special version of Johnny Clegg’s  “The Crossing”

[WATCH] Over 50 artists record special version of Johnny Clegg’s “The Crossing”

For this week's #GoodNewsThursdays, we find out the inspiration behind the production.