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[LISTEN] 'There is no reason why you should want the apartheid flag'

20 September 2019 12:47 PM
Tags:
Apartheid flag
apartheid symbols
Old Apartheid Flag
symbolism
Eusebius McKaiser discusses the ongoing debate around the Apartheid flag with guests Kneo Mokgopa and Vashna Jagarnath.

There has been ongoing debate around the display of the apartheid flag since a ruling by Deputy Judge President Phineas Mojapelo declaring the gratuitous display of the flag is hate speech.

Last month, AfriForum's Ernst Roets tweeted a picture of the apartheid flag hours after the judgment asking if he broke the law. This prompted the Nelson Mandela Foundation filed papers for contempt of court.

Roets was cleared on the matter.

RELATED: Mandela Foundation 'disappointed' by Roets flag ruling

Eusebius McKaiser sat down with the Nelson Mandela Foundation's communications and advocacy manager Kneo Mokgopa, as well as historian and researcher Vashna Jagarnath to further explore the arguments around the apartheid symbol and its use.

What I find completely astounding to me is that there is no reason why you should want the apartheid flag. It is not making any historical, cultural heritage points.... it has nothing to do with Afrikaner identity. It has something to do with an oppressive state that comes into being. It had huge material impact on ordinary South Africans' lives.

Vashna Jagarnath, Historian and researcher

Speaking on a complete ban of such symbols and the impact this may have on "public memory", Jagarnath uses Germany as an example of how it has managed to teach history without the iconography.

Public memory in Germany of the holocaust is alive and well, it is there everywhere. They have just done it in a different way. For example, where there was the Gestapo headquarters, that was smashed and razed to the ground and they built something called the Topography of Terror which is a museum about what happened to people during the holocaust.

Vashna Jagarnath, Historian and researcher

There are ways to remember. We can remember the horror of apartheid never to be repeated but there is no reason to have the flag for us to remember that.

Vashna Jagarnath, Historian and researcher

Commenting on AfriForum's argument regarding the protection of freedom of speech, Mokgopa says this is limited.

Freedom of speech in the Constitution is limited... it actually expressly excluded hate speech and the declaratory order made that clear that gratuitous display has never fallen within the protections of free speech.

Kneo Mokgopa, Communications and advocacy manager - Nelson Mandela Foundation

Click on the link below to hear the full conversation...


20 September 2019 12:47 PM
Tags:
Apartheid flag
apartheid symbols
Old Apartheid Flag
symbolism

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